Monday, May 27, 2013

Europe would be better off without Britain - opening speeches


Proposers’ opening speech
What would the European Union lose if Britain were to depart from it? The world’s seventh economy? The fourth most powerful army in the planet? A seat in the UN security council? A member of the Group of Eight? Well, yes...

However, the EU would also get rid of British food, British weather and the Imperial Units system (that uses feet instead of the meters!). I guess everyone now is persuaded that Europe would be better off without Britain! (Continues below the fold…)

by HSA

Opposers’ opening speech
It has been a long time since young Mister H fell in love with young Miss K. Their story was not obvious at the beginning because of a history of fighting. But they once dated and now Mister H is the happiest man on Earth. The happiest? Not exactly: for the past few weeks, Miss K seems to be evasive and distant. He is suspecting her of wanting to break up. It would be a disaster for him: his friends would mock him, he would be discredited as a flirt with other girls and his heart would be broken forever. So Mister H mustered the courage he needed and phoned Miss K to tell her that he was no more in love with her and their relationship had to be ended. Tonight, Mister H is definitively sad but proud to have been the first to break up. (Continues below the fold…)

by PB 


Proposers’ opening speech
What would the European Union lose if Britain were to depart from it? The world’s seventh economy? The fourth most powerful army in the planet? A seat in the UN security council? A member of the Group of Eight? Well, yes...

However, the EU would also get rid of British food, British weather and the Imperial Units system (that uses feet instead of the meters!). I guess everyone now is persuaded that Europe would be better off without Britain!

More seriously: Britain is undeniably a great country with great people. It has always been a key country in Europe and around the globe. Yet, contrarily to what its prime minister thinks, it is not “hard to argue that the EU would not be diminished by Britain's departure”.
Britain's departure would be a real boon to Europe, a gift from the gods! Our debating team will explain you why from several points of views: A European citizen (non-British), a British citizen and a complete foreigner (a non-European who was granted a visa to participate to our debate).

Before we start debating, one point has to be clear: the British government CANNOT expect to leave the EU and keep all the benefits (like free trade). Benefits come with rules! Therefore, we consider that if Britain chose to depart from the EU, it would have to renegotiate ALL its agreements.

As a European citizen, my argumentation will be based on two points:
1/ Far from hurting our economies, Britain's departure would actually benefit us and create many jobs (we kind of need that currently)
2/ The European Union has reached a point when it can no longer develop if it doesn't achieve political integration. Britain has always barred the way to such integration and only its departure will allow us to reach the objective of a political Union.


First, let me explain you very simply why the European economy would benefit from a British departure:
For centuries now, the British economy has been one of the strongest around the globe. It is still ranked 7th in the world. Britain has both a strong service sector (the City) and a manufacturing one (ranked 8th in the planet (according to Nigel Farage in his speech, [link]). So, you might think the EU cannot afford letting such a powerful country abandon it! Wouldn't the European economy, already suffering from the 2008 crisis, simply collapse?!
The answer to that legitimate question is simple: No, no, NO.
Why? Because the European economy is by no means dependent upon the British one. Less than 10% of the UK economy is involved in trade with the EU [link]. And no EU country trades mainly with Britain. Hence, the European internal trade would not suffer from the loss of Britain.
Actually, Europeans workers (and unemployed) would be delighted if Britain were to depart from the EU: Since this country would have to renegotiate all its trade agreements, process which would take time, British large foreign-owned car industry would shift into the EU. Besides that, sectors linked to the EU membership such as aerospace (Airbus) would move their production to France and Germany [link].

Therefore, from an economical perspective, Europe would clearly be better off without Britain.

More important though are the political benefits Europe would gain from a British withdrawal.
The EU was intended to achieve both economic AND political union. Nevertheless, “Perfidious Albion” has constantly shown reluctance to this political union. It has often blocked negotiations at the European scale, like with the 2005 budget talks. This obstructionism has prevented Europe (which has the potential to be as powerful as the US, the European economy being more important than the American one) from “converting its power into strategies” [link]. Without Britain, Europe would achieve the federalism its fathers dreamed of.  Without Britain, Europe would be a unified and therefore powerful block. Without Britain, Europe would be better off.

Now, Dave (I know you read this blog very often), I hope I have convinced you you are not in a position to blackmail the EU. Herman and Angela (other usual readers of this blog) are trying to make you think they would do anything to prevent Britain from leaving the union. However, they are secretly hoping you will do that mistake ;).

Zoso (HSA)

Opposers’ opening speech
It has been a long time since young Mister H fell in love with young Miss K. Their story was not obvious at the beginning because of a history of fighting. But they once dated and now Mister H is the happiest man on Earth. The happiest? Not exactly: for the past few weeks, Miss K seems to be evasive and distant. He is suspecting her of wanting to break up. It would be a disaster for him: his friends would mock him, he would be discredited as a flirt with other girls and his heart would be broken forever. So Mister H mustered the courage he needed and phoned Miss K to tell her that he was no more in love with her and their relationship had to be ended. Tonight, Mister H is definitively sad but proud to have been the first to break up.

Ladies and Gentlemen, as referenda are in the air nowadays, especially for British parliament, Europe is facing the Mister H ordeal: will Europe reject the UK not because of internal disagreements but in order to keep its pride and to be the « first »? Will it follow the reasoning of an immature and proud 14 years old boy? Some can call this « courage » but is it not only a headlong rush? I strongly hope that Europeans who belong to Schuman’s Europe, a Europe of peace and solidarity, have never had such a thought. Unfortunately, this debate is topical and we should consider it as a way to strengthen the European Union.

Indeed, by Europe, we mean the European Union. But we must be careful. We mean the European Union, not France among the European Union. I can already see the proposing team promoting the greatness of France, the courage of the General de Gaulle who refused UK in the former EU. This is not the debate here. France belongs to the EU and it does not belong to France to reject or not the UK. If France condemns the euroscpectics among the British politicians, French ones have to be role models, have to show the pace of solidarity and collaboration between all the state members of the EU. Thus, we will try to think as a union and not as a state. I hope everyone here would embrace the European dream because it is neither the debate to determine if the EU has a future or not.

However, here is the topical observation: scepticism has risen among British politicians about the benefit for the UK to stay in the EU. European leaders who fight for the EU could feel disappointed and offended, who would not be? But should they take any decision without analysing closely what is said on the other side of The Channel? Let us look closely to this scepticism. First of all, the debate is only political: the pressure on Mr Cameron which comes from a strong opposition but also from the disagreement inside his own party, made him open the debate. It does not come from an economic conjuncture, a social consideration, or a political disagreement with Europe. Indeed, the City is strongly opposed to a break up with Europe. A letter cosigned by Richard Branson (Virgin’s CEO) and Nigel Sheinwald (Shell’s CEO) claims: « The benefits of membership overwhelmingly outweigh the costs, and to suggest otherwise is putting politics before economics ». To Britain, membership is estimated to be up to £92bn per year in income gains, or up to £3,500 for every household. Before considering attacks and outrages, we should have a closer look and a benevolent ear to what it is said and what is not. Did the European leaders feel hurt when Marine Le Pen or Jean Luc Mélenchon criticised Europe during the French presidential campaigns?

However, let us imagine the British claims are not transient, what should Europe do? As Mister H and Miss K, the temptation is great to go outstrip the other’s decision and to break up in order to keep your pride and your honour. But, actually, it does not belong to Europe to choose or not. If Europe does not exclude Greece when the largest crisis of the EU happens, how could it choose to exclude the UK? It is to the UK to decide what it wants for its people. And even if it was down to Europe to choose, one of the greatest commitments of the EU is the promotion of democracy. Would the European leaders organize a European referendum (where the British people would vote) in order to decide or not the UK’s exit? It would be a disaster for Europe’s legendary solidarity and cooperation.

Finally, I can barely see how anyone can feel reinvigorated when one of his relatives leaves him. This was not Schuman’s dream when he foresaw the benefit of peace, democracy and solidarity for all Europe. We have a crisis to solve, great competitors to compete with, please do not play the Sparta versus Athens war when Xersès is knocking at the door. As Martin Schulz said, Europe is a promise: if we do not believe in it, how can the UK?

PB

22 comments:

  1. “So Mister H mustered the courage he needed and phoned Miss K to tell her that he was no more in love with her and their relationship had to be ended. Tonight, Mister H is definitively sad but proud to have been the first to break up.”
    Your comparison with Mister H and Miss K is irrelevant: Not only did Europe not call Britain to tell it it was “breaking up”, but several European politicians immediately reacted to David Cameron’s announcement to reassert their strong will to keep Britain in the Union.


    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  2. “I can already see the proposing team promoting the greatness of France, the courage of the General de Gaulle who refused UK in the former EU.”
    Well, bad guess, we didn’t mention De Gaulle or France. However you seem to have a fixation for Schuman (who was a key figure in the European construction, but not the only one)


    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  3. “Unfortunately, this debate is topical and we should consider it as a way to strengthen the European Union.”
    You are just supporting one of our arguments: Europe without Britain would be able to achieve its main goal: Political integration and therefore be more powerful.


    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  4. “However, here is the topical observation: scepticism has risen among British politicians about the benefit for the UK to stay in the EU.”
    You are mentioning the politicians, but what about the people?
    Don’t you take the British people into account? The British people who were not asked about a political union. The British people who have signed for a single market and not for anything else. Well, those people are growing sceptical about a union that wants them to integrate politically whether they like it or not. And they feel like they want to keep their distances with such a political union.

    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  5. "To Britain, membership is estimated to be up to £92bn per year in income gains, or up to £3,500 for every household." (reference??)

    and:
    Irrelevant: This debate is not about the benefits Britain can take from a EU membership but about whether or not Europe would be better off without Britain. The answer is yes.

    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  6. Dear Anonymous/Zoso/HSA,

    Some comments on your interventions:

    - your quotations were very well linked. Congratulations !

    - however, your quotations and references were absolutely not relevant between them. You seem to only have copied what you have read, without trying to think about

    - Well, my last comment was not entirely true. But when you have tried to think by yourself, it gave this: "Benefits come with rules". You seem to claim a general truth as it was evident. I can send you back to a reference called Wikipedia about what the liberalism is.

    - Apparently, you seem to have spent more time on your Youtube video (47 minutes) than in economy classes. "Britain departure will create lots of jobs": your only example is the Airbus one, and even this one is badly employed (you should have unemployed it like the thousands people after Britain departure, ^^).Lines of production cannot be moved as you want: it costs a lot, you lose productivity, quality and you have to rebuilt organization. Just try to look a little bit about all the less famous companies which had to move their tunisian production back to France. They are not creating jobs ...

    - Please do not be fake: you wrote that you will be happy to get rid of british food, metric system and so on, that the benefits of britain membership is irrelevant, you seem to enjoy Cameron's potential mistake, and then, you are reproching to other to take British people into account. The difference between us, is that we do not see this debate as a war between the UK and the rest of Europe, even if the UK leaves the EU.

    - Your loyalty is legendary (I did not see you for our school debate against our major opponent...), so it must be hard to you to understand what ally or friend means. The UK belongs to Europe and there is no fight between the British and the Europeans. Think about collaboration without thinking aboutt benefits.

    - That is why I promote Schuman's figure, because in an Europe devasted by wars, it was very brilliant to think about an Union. Of course, it was not the only head of the movement, but it was the only one who embodied up to the end this great idea of peace. But when you do not use wikipedia to write your speech, you try to be straightforward and not to spread your (digital) knowledge...

    - By proposing to fire Great Britain, I can assure you that it would not promote an new European political integration. I will scare people.

    - You spent lots of energy to comment the opposing speech but you avoid to comment about emergency of being unified against great powers. Are you dry ?

    - The story of Mister H and Miss K was not true (I was obvious, how could Mister H be with such a great girl ?), it was a parabola. That is why Europe did not truly take the phone and called Great Britain.

    ReplyDelete
  7. “however, your quotations and references were absolutely not relevant between them.”
    You are probably referring to the fact that I have sources with very different points of view on the matter: Listening to everyone before taking a decision is actually very positive. Thank you for pointing this out.

    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  8. “Well, my last comment was not entirely true.”
    We are making progress: Hopefully by the end of the debate you will admit that your whole speech was not true.

    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  9. “But when you have tried to think by yourself, it gave this: "Benefits come with rules". You seem to claim a general truth as it was evident. I can send you back to a reference called Wikipedia about what the liberalism is.”
    So according to you, living in a liberal society means to be able to do anything you want?
    I think you are confusing liberalism and anarchy.

    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  10. “Apparently, you seem to have spent more time on your Youtube video (47 minutes) than in economy classes”
    […]
    “and even this one is badly employed (you should have unemployed it like the thousands people after Britain departure, ^^)”
    You didn’t spend 47 minutes reading the moderator’s introduction. Otherwise you would have understood that this motion was about the possible withdrawal of Britain from the EU. Therefore, Europe is the continent without Britain.


    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  11. “Just try to look a little bit about all the less famous companies which had to move their tunisian production back to France. They are not creating jobs ...”
    I don’t get your point? Can you clarify it a little bit please?


    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  12. “Please do not be fake: you wrote that you will be happy to get rid of british food, metric system and so on,”
    That was a joke (I should have made it clear for you)


    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  13. “Your loyalty is legendary (I did not see you for our school debate against our major opponent...), so it must be hard to you to understand what ally or friend means”
    You are using personal attacks because you are short of arguments on the topic.
    By the way I participated much more than you on our debating competition (I wrote a speech pronounced by our teammates; you did… attend)


    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  14. “The UK belongs to Europe and there is no fight between the British and the Europeans. Think about collaboration without thinking aboutt benefits.”
    Who talked about a “fight”? Now, because you can’t defend your point with arguments, you are just trying to lie about my arguments: hopeless.


    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  15. “But when you do not use wikipedia to write your speech, you try to be straightforward and not to spread your (digital) knowledge...”
    Again: Having absolutely no serious argument to defend, you try to spread defamatory ideas (I did not look into Wikipedia when I prepared this motion)

    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  16. “By proposing to fire Great Britain, I can assure you that it would not promote an new European political integration.”
    Did anyone propose to “fire Great Britain”? I thought this debate was created by David Cameron (British Prime Minister) when he promised an in-out referendum (in Britain)…

    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  17. “I will scare people.”
    Freudian Slip?
    if you wanted to say: “it will scare people”, then let me tell you you are wrong! The withdrawal of Britain will only strengthen the European Union. The people would therefore live in a powerful union.

    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  18. “You spent lots of energy to comment the opposing speech”
    Indeed: There was a lot to correct.


    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  19. “Are you dry ?”
    Dry is the contrary of wet… That’s a strange question.

    Zoso

    ReplyDelete
  20. My poor boy. You are exhausting ! You correct words by words what I said without proposing any other alternatives. All the arguments I have said still stands... and yours (= the ones you copied on the internet), vanished in your arrogance.

    I will take some time to answer the only ones comments you have posted which worth to be read.

    First of all, delocalisation of an all production is not costless and it can actually lead to bankruptcy. Many firms which had production in unstable countries has to do that. Airbus cannot move like this his production, so it will not create employment. If you were very interested in economy you would have known this point. But your only example was Airbus one, and unfortunately for you it was bad employed.

    You clearly misunderstood the reference about your loyalty. I have never said that I was more involved than you in this team, I was just pointing out, only to serve our debate, that when you are taking an involvement, you are a steadfast ally when you are staying up to the end (and not abandoning it without even going support it when the team is in trouble). This is what I hope for the European Union which involved in 1973 to accept the UK. Let us which a Europe which keep its word.

    Now, I hope you would be wise and try to calm down your frenesy, and maybe give a little more place for you colleagues who have surely plenty ideas to promote (this is where collaboration starts).

    ReplyDelete
  21. I will not answer your ad hominem digs.
    My arguments are clearly presented in my speech. They are strong, but unfortunately not nearly enough to overcome your bad faith.

    Zoso

    ReplyDelete